United States Atomic Energy Commission Volume XI; In the Matter Of: J. Robert Oppenheimer

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In the Matter Of: ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY : 36,192 Page 1 document. The originaf document itself is blurred and difficult to read.

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Witness Direct Cross Redirect Recross • CHARLES CHRISTIAN LAURITSEN 2009 2043 2067 2069 ROBERT FOX BACHER 2119 2151 2181

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UNITED STATES ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION PERSONNEL SECURITY BOARD In the l4atter of Atomic Energy Commission, The above entitled matter came on for hearing, pursuant to recess, before the Board, at 9:30 a.m. PERSONNEL SECURITY BOARD: MR. GORDON GRAY, Chairman. ROGER ROBB, and ALLAN B, ECKER, Counsel for J. Robert Oppenheimer.

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• bas a statement he would like to make for the record. With your consent, I should like this to appear in the record at DR. EVANS: Mr. Chairman, for the record, I would like to state that I think Dr. Bush was in error when he stated that the members of the Board made a mistake when they agreed to serve on this Board unless the letter from General Nichols was rewritten. Personally I knew very little about this case when I agreed to serve on it at considerable inconvenience to • myself, and I did so because I thought it was my duty to serve . MR. GRAY: Would you be good enough to stand and raise your right hand. Your name J,s Katherine Qppenheimer"f MR. GRAY: Katherine Oppenheimer, do y01 swear that the testimony you are to give the Board shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? was called as a witness, and having been first duly swo·rn, was

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vxamined and testified as follows: MR. GRAY: Will you be seated, please. Mrs. Oppenheimer, it is my duty to remind you of tbe existence of the perjury statutes. We will assume that you are familiar with them. I should also like to say to you what I have said to the other witnesses, and that is that we consider these proceedinRS a confidential natter between the Atomic Energy Commission and its officials on the one hand, and Dr. Oppenheimer and his 1llltnesses and representatives on the other. The Commission will issue no publi.c releases, and we express the hope that witnesses will take the same view • Q Yrs. Oppenheimer, you are the wife of Dr. J. Robert Q What were you doing in the autumn of 1933? A I was attending the University -of Wisconsin . Q You were attending the University of Wisconsin? A That is right.

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Q What did you do during the Christmas holidays of 1933? A I went to stay with friends of my parents in Q Will you tell us the circumstances of your meeting A Yes. I have an old friend in Pittsburgh, a girl called Selma Baker. I saw quite a bit of her at that time. It was Selma who said she knew a Communist, and would we like to meet him. Everybody agreed that would be interesting. There was a New Year's Party. Selma brought Joe Dallet. Did you and he fall in love during that holiday Did you decide you would be married? Did you fix a date for that? A Yes. I decided to go back and finish my semester at Wisconsin and then join Joe in Youngstown and get ma~ried q Is that what you did? Q The semester ended at the end of January, I suppose, of 1934, and you went to Youngstown? A Early February. I don't know. lt Joe Dal let was· a member of the Communist Party?

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I And you knew that he was? q During your life with him, dicll you join the Pir ty? Q Will you tell us why you joined the Party'? A Jaa very much wanted me to, and I didn't mind. I don't know when I joined the Party. I think it was in 1934, but I am not sure when. 0 Did you do work for tbe Party? A I mimeographed leaflets and letters. I typed. I did generally office work, mostly fer the steel union tba t was then in existence·. Q What were most of yoor activities related to? A Mostly to the union at first, and later anyth:l.ng that came up,I was sort of general office boy. A I believe mine were ten cents a wetk • Q Would you describe the conditions under which yai lived •1th Joe Dallet as those of poverty?

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Q As time went on, did you find that you became devoted to the Party or more devoted or less devoted or more attached A I don't think I could ever describe it as a devotion or even attachment. What interest I had in it decreased. A No, not at all. Q Was that a cause of disagreement between Joe and A I am afraid so . Q Did you and Joe ultimately separate? Q Would you say that your disagreement with Joe about your lack of enthusiasm, shall we say, for the Party, had something to do with the separation? A I think it was lllOe3 tly bhe cause of the separation. I felt I didn't -nt to attend Party meetings or do the· kind of work that I was doing in the office. That made him unhappy. We agreed that we couldn't go on that -y. <' Did you remain in love with him?

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Q Where did you go when you separated? A I joined my parents in England . Q That was about June of 1936.? A I think it was June. r Did a time come when you wrote Joe that you were willing to rejoin him. A Yes. I wrote him probably very early in 1937, saying that I would like to rejoin him. o Did be answer you? A Be answered sayin[l that would be good, but he waR on his way to Spain to fitrht for tbe Republic caQse, and would I please instead meet him in Paris . Where did you meet him? I met him at Cherbourir aboard the Queen l\lary as it That was in 1937? Yes. I taink it was March. I am not sure. Did you go with him then to Paris? We took the boat train and went to Paris". Bow long did you stay in Paris with him. A I would think about ten days. It could have been a week, it could have been two weeks, but roushly t Do I understand that be bad a furlough or some time off or something because of tbe reunion? · A That ia right.

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Q What did you do during that ten days or so :bl Paris? A We walked around and looked at Paris, went to restaurants, the sort of thing one does :In Paris. We went to the museums and picture galleries. We went to one large political meeting, a mass raeeting, where they were advocating arms for Spain. Q Do you recall any other political activities if that mipt be called one during that period or tat ten days A I think one should describe as a political activity that one place I saw where people who were going to lpain were being checked in and told bow to do it. I went there once. A I had nothing to c:b Q Then Joe went off to Spain. (' During that period did you meet Steve Nelson? A Y-. I met him :i.n Paris. I saw him several times. I think Joe and I had meals with him occasionally. Q Whit did you talk about with hi•? A I don't know; all kinds of things._ I think among

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other things the only thing that interests this .Board is the fact that we talked of various ways of getting to Spain wh:llh was Then Joe went to Spain at tbe end of that ten days What did you do? I went back to England. Did you try to do anything about joining Joe? Yes, I wanted to very much. What was your plan as to how you would join Joe? A I was told that they would try to see if it were possible, and if it were, I would bear from someone in Paris and then go to Paris, and be told how to get there. Q Was there talk or your getting a job somewhere :in A Yes. I don't know what, though. o Were you ultimately told that it was possible? A I got a letter from Joe saying that be found me a job in Albacrete. Q Did you then go to Paris? A First I stayed in England and waited quite a while A 1937. I then got a wire saying I should come to

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Paris, and I went. Do you want me to go on? Q What happened when you got to Paris? • A When I got to Paris, I was shown a telegram sayintr that Joe bad beenkilled in action. A I was also told that Steve Nelson was coming back from Spain in a day or two, and I might want to wait an d see what Steve bad to sa;ir He bad a lot to tell .. about joe. A Yes, I spent at least a week tbere. I saw lteve llOSt of tbe time. Q Wb&t did you talk about with him. A Joe, himself, myself. Q Would you say that Steve was kind to you and sort of tooa aare of you during this period? A Be certainly wad, very. Q Did you discuss witb Steve what-you would do now? O Will you tell us what that discussion was? A For a little while I bad sQma notion of going on

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A I was emotionally involved in the Spanish cause. Q Did Joe's death have something to do with your wanting A Yes, as well as if alive he would have. Q Did you discuss this with Steve? A I did, but Steve discouraged me. Be thought I would be out ot place and i.n the way. I then decided that probably I would go back to the United States and resume my • After you returned to ·the United States, did you continue to see any of the friends that you had with the A When I first got back I saw som friends of Joe's in New York who wanted to know about him and to whom I wanted to talk. I saw some other members of the Communist Party in New York. I went to Florida with three girls. I know one was a Communist. I think another one was, and the third one I • Q Did that relationship with Communist friends A No, it did not.

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A I visited a friend of mine in Philadelphia. I had planned to go to the University of Chicago, and got back to the United States to go back. to their second trimester • I don't know whether they still have that system. I knew no one there. I met a lot of people in Philadelphia, and they said, "You know all of us, why don't you stay here?·• I stayed in Philadelphia and entered the University of Pennsylva.nia, the spring semester of the year 1937-38. What kind of work did you do at the University? Chemistry, math, biology. Was bioloey your major? It became my major interest. Did you continue to do professional work as a I did graduate work later and some research. Ultimately you had a research fellowship or c Would you give us the date of your remarriage and A I married Richard Stewart Harrison, dn English

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physician, in 1938, in December or November. Be was a practicing physician? A He bad been, I 111nk, in England. He bad to take all his examinations in this country and do an internship and a residency before be could i:ractice here. A No. He went to California much earlier than I to take up this internship . Q Did you go out there to join him? . Q After graduation in June of 1931? When did you A In the first of November 1940. Q Did there come a time after you married Dr. Oppenheimer when you again saw Steven Nelson? Q Will you tell us the circumstances of that?

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A I -Will as best I can remember. I remember being at a party and -eting a girl called llerri-n. I knew of her. She was in Albacret~J- and her husband also got killed in action theria. Tbtreason I reambered her name is that I had been asked to brine ber SClllllt sox when I came. When I met her at this party, sl:& said did I know that Steve Nelson was in that part of the country. I said no, and then expressed some interest in his welfare. SOiie time thereafter Steve Nelson telephoned me, and I invited him and his wife and their small child up to our house. A We hd a picnic lunch. The nelsons were very pleased that they finally bad a child, because they tried fer a long t1- to have omwithout success. We talkalabout the old days, family matters. A I think that they came out to our house two times. MR. GRAY: What was tbe date of this period, approxima1Jly? If you have said, I have forgotten • THE WITNESS: I didn't say, !llr. Gray, beeause I am Q Can you give it as closely as you can?

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A Yes. I would guess it was lllte 1941 or perhaps in Q Are you fairly clear it was not later than 1942? Have you seen Steve Nelson since 1942? Since wbenever it was? You are no longer a member of the Communist Party? When would you say that you ceased to be a member? When I left Youngstown in June 1936. Rave you ever paid any dues to the Party since then? Q Will yc:u describe your views on Communism 11.s pro, A Very strongly against. Q And about how far back ., uld you date that? A Quite a long time. I had nothing to dci w:th Connunistm since 1936. I have seen some people, the ones that I have already desctibed. llR. SILVERMAN: That is all. llR, ROBB: No questions.

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MR. GRAY: llrs. Oppenheimer, how did you leave the TUE WITNESS: While I was in Younptown, yes. MR. GRAY: Did you turn this in or did you tear it up? THE WITNESS: I have no idea. MR. GRAY: And the act of joining was malting some sort of payment and receivinc a card? THE WITNESS: I remember getting a card and signing solllthing about Co-unism as it existed at that time in this country and the workings of the Communist Party, and therefore a probable understanding of this 1ling, what do you think is tbe kind of thing that is an act of renunciation? That is not a very cood question. In your case you just ceased to have any rel& tionships with the Party? THE WITNESS: I …