United States Atomic Energy Commission Volume II; In the Matter Of: J. Robert Oppenheimer

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UNITED STATES ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION PERSONNEL SECURITY BOARD In the Matter of Jo ROBERT OPPENHEIMER Atomic Energy Commission, The above entitled matter came on tor hetring, pursuant to recess, before the Board, at 9:30 a.m, PERSONNEL SECURITY BOARD: MR, GORDON GRAY, Chairman, ROGER ROBB, and SAMUEL J. SILVERMAN, and ALLEN B, ECKER, Counsel for J. Robert Oppenheimer,

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MR. GRAY: I would like to call the proceeding to The Chairman ofthe Board has a few observations to make, and I have a few questions to ask on behalf of the I should like to read again for the record a statement which I made yesterday, that the proceedings and stenographic record of this Board are regarded as strictly confidentia 1 betveen Atomic Energy Commission officials participating in this matter, and Dr. o.ppenheimer, his representatives and witnesses. The Atomic Energy Commission • will not take t11e initiative in public release of any information ~·el1ting to proceedings before this Board. Tt.e 1Joard viuws with very deep concern stories in the press vhich have bE1en brought to the attention of members of the Boa'.·d. I persoua l ly have not had time to read the New York Time; article, but I am told that both the Nichols. letter ti> Dr. Oppenheiu1er, of December 23, and his reply of Marc~ 4, are reprinted in iull, Without having any informaticn wh·.tsoeve.:r, I have to assume that this was given to the .New DR. OPPENHEIMER: It says so in the paper. llR, GRAY: I do not suggest that represents a violation of security. I ha·1e a serious question about the

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spirit in keeping with the statement wa made for the record yesterday about these proceedings being a matter of confidential relationship between the Commission and the Board representing the Commission. and Dr, Oppenheimer and bis representatives and witnesses. We were told yesterday before this bearing began that you were doing all you could to keep this out of the press. You said you were lateyesterday because you had fingers in the dike, I believe was your expression, which I found somewhat confusing against subsequent e.vents in the day when you say·that you gave everything that you had to the press. We agreed yesterday that it would be very unfortunate to have this proceeding conducted in the press. There was no dissent from that view which was expressed, I QSlieve, by all I think that it should be perfectly apparent, particularly to the attorneys involved, that this Board faces real difficulties if each day matters about this proceeding appear, not on the basis of rumors or gossip, but on the basis of information handed directly to the press, I think it only fair to say for the record that the Board is very much I should like to ask some questions for the record about the authorized spokesman for Dr. Oppenheimer, I assume

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Silverman and Mr. Ecker are actively and officially associated in this proceeding. I should like to ask who else is working on this who may be talking to the press? MR. GARRISON: Mr. Chairman, perhaps you could let me answer that question by a little history. The letter fr om the Commission was given on December 23. I came into the case early in January. Almost immediately, or ·perhaps the middle of January, it became quite apparent from inquiries t.hat Mr, Reston addressed both to the Atomic Energy Commission and to Dr. Oppenheimer, that he already had information that clearance had been suspended, and that proceedings were goj,pg forward against Dr. Oppenheimer. He was most anxious to obtain background inform•tion from us. We explained to him the nature of the proceedings and our barnest desire that this not be the subject -- DR. OPPENHEIMER: May I correct that. Was this yo~r conversation with Reston, because I believe the initial conversations were with me. He called and he was very persistent in calling. I tried to evade it. I knew what it would be about. After about five or six da.ys of persistent telephoning, he talked to my wife, and said that be had this story and he wished I would talk to him, I talked to him on the phone. I said I thought it contrary to the national interest that the story should

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be published, that I did not propose to discuss it with him,but if.. the time came when it was a public story, I would be glad to discuss it with him, That was mid-January, I don't remember the date. I am depending on counsel's memory, I believe that was the substance of our talk. He told me two things. First, that my clearance had been revoked, That was the story he had heard, That this had been cabled, telegraphed and broadcast to Submarine Commanders throughout the Fleet and Army posts throughout the world, and second, that Senator McCarthy was fully aware of this and thought I ought to know that, That was the end of that discussion, I was given to understand by proffers of kindness but not other sign that the Alsops knew the situation. Later this was confirmed by one of the prospective witnesses. MR. GRAY: Ynu did not talk with either one of the DR, OPPENHEIMER: I have not talked to either one of the Alsops until very recently, and I will describe those conversations. This was long ago, and it was my affair, and I though my memory would be more vivid than yours. MR. GARRISON: Why don't you tell of your conversation with the Alsops? DR, OPPENHEIMER: That is not until ~ery recently. Stewart Alsop called co-counsel, that is Herbert Marks,

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whose name should be in th~se proceedings when would that have been, Saturday, Friday -- quite recen.tly, saying that they bad the story and were frantic to publish, and that I should call Joe Alsop, who is up in Connecticut at a DR. OPPENHEIMER: I did call him there. I put on my spiel, the thing that I have said to everyone, that I thought this story coming out before the matter was resolved could do the country no good. Either I was a traitor and very, very important secrets bad been in jeopardy over the last 12 years, or the government was acting in a most peculiar way to take proceedings against me at this moment. This is the impression that I feared would be made" Neither impression could be good. only doubly bad .• Having both of them could be Therefore, not as far as I was concerned, but as far as what I tbought was right, I urged Joe Alsop to hold bis story, not to publish it. We did not discuss any substantivie things except that Alsop told me bow apprehensive be was that Senator McCarthy would come out with ito I believe that was all I said to Joe Also. He said be thought I was making a great mistake, but I said it was my mistake. I recognized of course thathe could publish any moment that be wanted to.

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MR. GRAY: May I ask, as of this time or ten o'clock yesterday morning, had you given the New York ~imes MR. OPPENHEIMER: These documents were given to Reston by my counsel Friday· night, I believe, without any instruction as to what he was to do with them,as background MR. GRAY: So that you knew when you made the statement here yesterday morning that you were keeping the finger in the dike that these documents, dated December 23 and March 4, were already in the possession of the New York DR. OPPENHEIMER: Indeed we did, Reston with instructions not to be used unless it became essential for the Times to re lease the story because others were going to do likewise. We hoped even as of yesterday -- the last word we had with Mr, Reston was after lunch -- we hoped even an of yesterday that this could be held off, although I told you st the start that it might be only a matter of hours. MR. GRAY: You didn't indicate to me in any way -- if you attempted to do so, it is a matter of my misinterpretation -- that you had given documents which relate to these confidential proceedings and are part of these proceedings,

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You mentioned Mr, Marks. Who else is authorized ll!R, GARRISON: No one else. Mr. Marks is not counsel of record in this proceeding. He has been associated with us from the start because of his knowledge of past history. I am still seeking his guidance and help. MR. GRAY: He is assisting, I take it, in preparing these documents which you present? Mn.• GARRISOK: · No, we did all that work ourselves. MR. GRAY: May I ask specifically for the record who prepared the e.xcerpts about which I asked the question ll!R,.. GARRI~ON .; We did in our own office. I did. Mr. Ecker worked on them, MR, GRAY: I should like to know, Mr, Garrison, why it was yesterday· that not one of the three of you could answer the question as to whether these paragraphs were consecutive or came from consecutive pages. It is apparent that someone else had prepared them. MR, GRAY: I have drawn a conclusion. If I am MR. GARRISON: I am sorry that such thoughts should e•en occur to you, What happened was that some weeks ago r went through Dr. Oppenheimer's writings and I marked

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particular sections and passages from a lot r:1 them that seemed to me to be worthy of presentation to the Board, and I asked that they be extracted and copied out, I h•ve not been over them for some time, To be frank with you, I have bad so much else to do. MR. GRAY: My point in raising all this is that if there are a good number of people who are not appearing here who are going to be talking to the press, I would like to know what con~rol or lack of control there may be in this situation. That is why I am raising this thing. MR. GRAY: I think these stories are very prejudicial to the spirit of inquiry that I tried to establish as an atmosphere for this bearing as we started yesterday,I I would very much regret that what would appear to be to the Board possible lack of cooperation in conducting these proceedings in the press if that were prejudicial to what are the basic fundamental issues involved. counsel of the Atomic Energy Commission, and a lawyer in

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MR. GRAY: Be is an attorney and member of the District of Columbia Bar? KR. GRAY: Aud do I understand he 19 of counsel to MR. GARRISON: Be is associated with us as counsel. MR.' GRAY: In the relationship of lawyer and client, Mr, Chairman, may I just say another thing about the problem that we faced, Mr. Reston from the middle ai .January has had the Alsops, and I don't know who else busy gathering information from anybody they could find and bad developed so much of the story when Mr. Reston talked with us on Friday that it seemed to us that if the story had to break that rather than half a story or two thirds of it or a quarter of it in fragments with constant demands afterwards from the press for the rest of it, that it was better that the basic documents be there for all to see. This was not a happy decision or a pleasant one for Dr. Oppenheimer, be lie.Ye me, to have the letter of charges displayed for •he American pbblic. It was something no man would ever wish to do. It was not until Mr. Reston told us yesterday afternoon that t.he thing absolutely could not bold, the stories were going to be published, Alsop said

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the same thing, that we said all right, go ahead then and print the documents. Now, it is not our purpose to make any press comments upon this case. It is not our purpose to release any transcripts, If .•you will observe the aeston story, I am sure you will see that we have tried to avoid any kind of special pleading. Dr. Oppenheimer has made no statement. We are not trying to try this case ourselves in the press. I assure you will all earnestness that is true. I feel absolutely certain that it is better in the long run for the government, for this Board, and for us, that there be no suspicion abo.ut what is the scope of this case, whether the H-bomb is in it, and all those kinds of questions that would arise if the actual facts had not been disclosed. MR, SILVERMAN: May I point out, if I may interrupt, there was an item in the Reston story, however, it is understood that be, Dr. Oppenheimer, also put in evidence another secret document in the form of a memoranum. We haven '.t the faintest idea what they are talking about, nor did we give them any such information. MR. GRAY: Who is "we", Who actually handed the MR, ROBB: Did he also get a copy of this

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Didn't I undurstand you to say yesterday morning that explaining your tardiness at the hearing that you had been engaged in a press conference? MR, GARRIS<Ji: No, I had been engaged in threshing this problem out among ourselves, because the calls were coming in and putting us under the greatest pressure, In fact, right along we have been under pressure to make statements, to initiate statements of our own· and come forward with information. It bas been a very, very difficult undertaking, MR. GRAY: I am quite aware of that, On the other band, you are quite aware alto that the members of this B.oard have been under pressure, and that we have I believe without fail said we will not discuss it, That will continue to be MR, GARRISON: I should also like to say that we did not disc lose to anybody -- when I say "we", I mean every one of the counsel to my knowledge, and Dr. Oppenheimer -- the names of this Board or. where the hearings were being held or anything else, llR. EVANS; Where did they get it? MR. GARRISON: I don't know, I have no idea.

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DR. EVANS: They called me up about 1:30. MR. GRAY: They called me, too, but I didn't I would like to move to another point, if I may. I am sorry we are keeping Dr. Kelly waiting. This has to do with the schedule of hearincs. You left a suggested typewritten schedule with us yesterday which was not made a part of the record. I think I should say that the Board cannot accept· this is a schedule. I repeat, indeed, if it is necessary to repeat, that this is to be a fair inquiry, that Dr. Oppenheimer will be given full and adequate opportunity to make any …