Transcription of Meeting Between DOE Representative and Government Officials of the Republic of the Marshall Islands at Majuro

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MARSHALL ISLANDS AT The purpose of the meeting was to present MEETING BETWEEN DOE REPRESENTATIVE OFFICIALS OF THE REPUBLIC OF THE to and discuss with the governmerit”officials of the Rep~blic of the Marshall Islands, two publications: “The Meaning of Radiation for Those Atolls in the Northern Part of the Marshall Islands That Were Surveyed in 1978” and “The Northern Marshall Islands Radiological Survey: Terrestrial Food Chain and Total Doses.” Those present were: Senator Ishmael John Enewetak Senator Calep Rantak Ujae Senator Ataji Baloo Kwajalein Senator Donald Matthew Utrik Minister Jeton Anjain Rongelap Minister Tom Kijiner Likiep Senator Tokwa Tomeing Wotje Senator Katip Mack Arno Mayor Jabwe Jorju Rongelap Major Necheld Leem Ailuk Mayor Elden Juda Utrik Senator Report Emmius Mej it Mayor Aneo Keju. Mej it Senator Mwejor Mathusala Wotho The following is an unedited verbatim transcription of the English language portion of a recording made of the two-day meeting. Since it was not possible.to identify with certainty all of the Marshallese speakers, they ,,are identified in most cases as “Marshallese.” From their translated ..‘,.,.comments it is frequently possible to identify the atoll they represent and ...for,.many of these it might be possible to identify the speaker. The translator, Mrs. Alice Buck, is identified in the transcript as the speaker only when she spoke for herself. Conversations and discussions among the English speaking participants that were not translated into Marshallese are given in parenthesis. A few words are left blank in the transcript because they were not recognizable to us. The addition of these and the identity

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of some of the Marshallese speakers would improve the transcript, if they can be supplied to us. Because it was not always clear on the tapes where sentences and phrases began and ended, much of the punctuation was inserted The transcript does not fully reflect the friendly, yet serious atmosphere in which this meeting occurred. The frequent instances of humor and laughter are recognizable on the tapes, copies of which are being made

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Roger Ray: I think you all know generally why we are here. We are here to report some work that has taken almost 4 years; that is, the conduct and analysis and reporting of results of the survey that was done in 1978. Some of you were here in July of 1978 when I talked to the same group about our plans to do the survey, and I remember that one of the most important things that I heard in that meeting was that you and your families and friends on the islands that were surveyed would very much like us to come back and report the results after we were finished. That was a promise that I made at that time, that we would come back as soon as the report of the survey was finished. (Can I use this for a second?) The actual scientific report of the survey is in a collection of books that look like this and some of you have seen those. The last of those was completed and came from the printers just a few days ago and just arrived here recently. At the same time that that report was being printed, Dr. Bair and his colleagues and, Alice Buck working with them, prepared this booklet. I think all of you have copies of it now, which is a summary of the reports of the survey and is expressed in both languages, Marshallese and English. We have many copies of that report and wish to make it available, that booklet, (wish to make it available) to everyone who will find it interesting and useful.

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Two weeks ago I cabled the President and informed him that this report was. now ready for presentation and I asked that we be permitted to come here this week to meet with those of you representing the islands that were surveyed, and any others who might be interested. We all regret very much that President Kabua cannot be here today. He informed me that he could not be; however, he said that we would be welcome to come ahead and meet with you, and knowing that I expect to meet with him next week and he will get a personal briefing on the report. We appreciate very much your coming in to be with us here so that we could come to one place to make this presentation. At later dates we hope to visit your home islands and at least answer questions that people may have and perhaps make a presentation if that seems worthwhile. What we would like to suggest this afternoon is that Mrs. Buck will go through the booklet using the slides. (and) She will not read it entirely but she will summarize what is on each page, summarize each chapter of the book. (and) We will be pleased to answer questions during and after that presentation. We would suggest that the questions be questions of explanation of what she has said rather than questions of broadening outside of what is in the book. Then after you have had a chance to study it, to look it over tonight and tomorrow, we would like to suggest that tomorrow afternoon we would meet with you and entertain any questions that may have come up as a result of your reading. Does everyone now have a copy of the (of the) colored pamphlet? (Right there on the table in front. etc. Coming up. ) Does anyone have a question or suggestion before we proceed? Alice Buck: We have one question here.

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Marshallese: Who was it that you had thought would be in this meeting? ~: We had expected to see representatives of the leadership of the atolls that were surveyed and any other members of the Nitijella, any members of the government. We were prepared to have accommodated in whatever space would be provided. I entirely to the government to make the choice of who listen to us. Buck: We have another question here. whoever might be think it was left would be here to Marshallese: The title of the book as presented here on the book says this report concerns atolls in the northern part of the Marshalls. Now just which atolls are these? ~: They are listed, I believe, on the, well ...here named on the chart on page 8 and 9. Those are all the ones that were surveyed. This report does not deal with Enewetak and Bikini. They’ve been separately reported in Buck: All right another question. Marshallese: Why did you treat Enewetak and Bikini differently from the Q: Enewetak and Bikini had been the subject of earlier surveys and there were decisions that the Enewetak people had to make in 1979, before we had this survey completed. So we prepared a booklet, a separate booklet, for Enewetak which was presented in 1979. Similarity, the people of Bikini asked us to make an earlier presentation to them when they had to make some decisions about their future. (and) So we produced a separate booklet for them. Those are mentioned in the back last few pages of.”.. Bikini is mentioned on page 61 and Enewetak on page 59.

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~: Here are those two books. Bikini and Enewetak. (Background voices not clear. Bill Robinson suggested it should be mentioned that the actual work was done before then. Alice said that it might be better to say again.) Buck: Another question. Marshallese: The first population to be returned to their atoll, if I understand correctly, was the people of Utrik. So I am asking why information regarding their atoll wasn’t prepared first. They were the first to be returned to their atoll. ~: Well, there was work, was survey work done at that time before the resettlement of Utrik and there has been a continuous survey effort at both Rongelap and Utrik since the 1950s. There was a great deal of information that lead to decisions and recommendations being given to the people. It was only after we had done the Bikini and Enewetak booklets and found them so useful that we felt that it was important to do this here. The information has flowed continuously but never in one concise form before for Utrik and Rongelap. I can’t really explain that, except to say that the people who were making the decisions had the information. We now recognize, certainly, that it would have been better, that is why we have done this, recognizing that it would have been better had there been a more complete, more continuous communication. Marshallese: I feel that there are other atolls that we would be considered accurately as part of the northern area of the Marshalls and I don’t see them named in this map. (and) So the reason that they do not appear in this book (is this), does this mean that they have not been significantly contaminated, or what is the reason that they are not? ~: That is the correct answer. At the time of the, at the time these islands and atolls were selected for survey a careful study was made of what had occurred in the past and it was concluded that these were the ones

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that might show some significant contamination. That if we cover these, we would (in ? found*) that there was no concern about the ones on the fringes of that pattern, that we need not be concerned outside that pattern. Buck: Further question. Marshallese: Has there been any survey made of other atolls than those in Ray: There have been limited surveys in other places. There has not been as comprehensive a survey as has been done, as is reported here, on I guess any other atolls but those that are listed here. There have been, (and aside to Alice, “can you find something for spot check?”), there have been brief visits, small excursions to other atolls just to be sure that there was not something that had been missed. ~: Many many surveys have been done starting back during the test days by the University of

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(\/~i~e in background cannot be understood. ) [Alice Buck - Began presentation in Marshallese of material in book.] Marshallese: Since this depicts the radioactive things circling the globe and actually going everywhere that seems to imply then that all of the Marshalls have been contaminated. Is that a fact? ~: It’s a fact that the fallout from the atomic testing of all countries does circle the globe, so to that extent we can say everywhere. Everywhere in the world especially in the northern hemisphere has received some Buck: Yes, a question. Marshallese: This is labeled the least amount of radioactivity, small amount of radioactivity, and so on. Which one of those numbers or categories is permissible for people to live healthfully? Bill Bair: None of the levels would be cons Marshallese: Is there any such, can you say at O were there is no radiation? that there would be a category

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Bair: No because it was mentioned earlier that fallout from the atomic bombs went all around the earth, so the whole world is contaminated to some Buck: Another questicn here. ~: May I follow that just a bit? ~: Before there was any atomic bomb, there was radiation in our environment, worldwide. The radiation, naturally occurring radiation, in the waters of the ocean, in the fish, in the plants. It has been there forever, since the earth was formed. We are also exposed daily to radiation from the sun, the cosmic rays from the sun. So there is no place that has zero radiation. What we are portraying with these numbers is that that which is caused by the bombs is not very different in quantity or intensity from that which occurs naturally. As the number gets higher it is more, it is larger in proportion to what is there naturally. But nowhere is there no radiation. Marshallese: So, here we see on the map of Bikini the figures 4 and with that you are saying that, that 4 is a level that is safe for habitation? May we live at Bikini? Bafr: I can’t answer that question whether you can live at Bikini. Bikini Island has more radiation on it than the other places that are labeled 3, labeled 2 and labeled 1. Marshallese: It seems including 4 were, it is that we are able to eat Bikini because that is ike you said before that all these figures possible to inhabit those places, so now that means whatever we want and drink whatever we desire at

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~: I think that these numbers we get further back in the text. there is a lot of explanation in will have a great deal more meaning when I don’t want to turn off a question, but what Alice is going to go through that will help us to, help answer your question. Perhaps a little later in the time we will come back to it but I think it would be a lot easier to comprehend and a lot easier for us to address after we develop. .. Marshallese: I am still not quite sure why we need to go further into the book when we are right here at this place and we can compare Ailinginae has a 2 and Bikini has these other numbers. (and) So it seems appropriate to address this question right now. Q: Well, certainly we can, can pursue it now.’ I was just suggesting that what comes after this helps to explain those numbers. Buck: I will tell you what I am really asking. I am questioning the accuracy of the numbers. It seems like maybe Bikini then should probably be a 6 or a 7 rather than a 4. I am just wondering that. Bair: The number 4 means the radioactive contamination is above a certain level . The level 3 is another range, level 2 is another range and the level 1 is the lowest range. So when you have an island or an atoll that says 4 it has know how high a range of values which may (be) extend upwards. I don’t because I don’t have all the data. Do you understand what I So the 4, does the 4 represent is the case does that mean it is safe? ~: The 4 represents an area which has rad. acceptable doses? And if that ation contamination above a certain level. We have not yet talked about what that means in terms of dose or what it means in terms of living at that place. There are other things beside the simple number of what the radiation level is on a particular island. There is the diet of people, there is the location from

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which they seek their food. Each of these questions has to be looked at, each of these locations has to be looked at using some assumptions as to what people are doing and for how long and that is …