AEC Meeting No. 1062 2:15 P.M., Wednesday, February 23, 1955

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ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION Thomas E, Murray Edward Diamond George A. Kolstad Morse Salisbury Col. Vincent G. Huston Shelby Thompson Charles H. Reichardt Comdr. John W. Crawford

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Colonel Huston then reviewed the report of the Joint Storage Board on requirements through Fiscal Year 1957. After discussion~ Approved the recommendation of AEC 25/4?. Selection of a Director of Reactor Development Letter from the Chairman of the Joint Committee: Future Use of Nevada Proving Grounds (See AEC 141/28, subsequently (In approving these minutes, the Commission requested that transcript of the meeting be used in lieu of this section of the minutes as originally written ~ The pertinent part of the trans - cript of Meeting 1062 (pp. 101-110), which has been reviewed by the Commission, is set forth below.) I think I ought to read it. It the 21st,, that is Monday. This has just arrived at this minute, and is from Senator Anderson, It is dated “As you know the Joint Committee on Atomic Energy has staunchly supported the Commission in its desire for a continental test site, ~?,}ehave also insisted t~t every necessary step must be W.ken to assure that operations at the Nevada Test Site are conducted safely and that no significant hazard to off-site public health should Pesult from test operations, Experience so far in the psesent series, however, prompts me to raise the question of whether the Nevada T’e st Site can be utilized effectively and economically under the present ~r iter h for anything other than very small yield devices t %eparate minutes for this part of the meeting have been circulated,

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“The test site was established primarily so that the weapon ~~ edevelopment laboratories could field test experimental devices easily ;~, and quickly. It was argued that the use of a continental test site I ‘1 ,~u~ rather than one in far Pacific, would provide savings in money and~ / more importantly, in time of key scientists and would interfere as ?11 ./> 7“little as possible with normal laboratory operations ~ Already we have seen in the present series a delay of one week, and unless I am * \ mistaken in my interpretation of the criteria under which the test organization presently operates and the commitments given the public S we shall see much more costly delay, One weather scientist informed us that the probability of finding weather conditions that meet all the present criteria is about one day in twenty-five, “I would appreciate receiving from the Commission an evaluation of the Nevada Test Site under the present criteria for test operations ~ Your report should consider whether only very small yield devices should be te steal there, leaving all substantial shots for the Pacific where they can be precisely scheduled. “Please do not misunderstand me, I do not advocate taking any, real risk with public health and safety; rather, assuming that the pre - sent criteria are necessary for public safety, I am raising the question of whether we can use the Nevada Test Site efficiently for anything other than the test of very small yield devices .“ COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Do you think he is referring to the CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Presumably, MR, NICHOLS: He was out there. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: He was out there, He didn’t see thing because he left before it was shot, MR, NICHOLS: That is quite a change in his attitude, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Yes, it is a big change.

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do”you worry about all these things, nobody has ever been hurt. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Al Graves said I think you should go MR. NICHOLS: This is a complete reversal, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: This was one day towards the middle of the weeks C GMMISSIONER LIBBY: I am pretty disturbed by this, I noted~ Lewis, that you had cooled off about the Nevada site. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: I had been cool long before. My coolness started in the spring of 1953, but I have never discussed this with Anderson. This is spontaneous, gram back a lot to go to the Pacific, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: I have gone along with the majority of the Commission that this is the thing to do. C CMMISSIONZR MURRAY: You would not consider pulling back anything in the present series of tests ? CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: If I were asked whether the two large shots should be made, and it were left to my sole decision, I would say load them on a ship and go out to Eniwetok and put them on a COMMISSIONER MURRAY: How long do you think that would CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: It could take you 60 or 90 days and it may take you 60 or 90 days before you get them off at this rate. COMMISSIONER LIBBY: It is a serious decision.

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&f R,,NICHOLS: My immediate reaction is that we went over very thoroughly the criteria that were set up for conducting the tests, ? It is my understanding that it has been rather unusual weather out there, I don’t see yet that we are ready to assume that you can’t k run a series of tests reasonably on schedule. It was recognized that you would not have the se big ones on schedule, but you would hope to complete the whole series in a reasonable time. COMMISSIONER LIBBY: Maybe the fur or will die down as we go through the series, after we have had the bomb on Monday or CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Yes, and it was a little one yesterday. But they made as much fuss about it as if it had been a big one. COMMISSIONER LIBBY: How big was it? CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Four KT. COMMISSIONER LIBBY: 1 think somehow, Lewis, we ought to be very slow, I was disappointed to learn from the General Manager’s report this morning that Los Alamos and Liver mor e are talking about canceling Dixie, That sets it back. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: I don’t think that is on account of any pressures of this sort, It is on account of other reasons, COMMISSIONER LIBBY: Maybe they have the same reasonf CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: No, I think when Graves reads this letter he will be very surprised, MR, NICHOLS: I certainly am considering the previous reports I got from people in conversation with Anderson. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: There is a Nevada legislator who has ?ntroduced a bill in the Nevada legislature, according to one of the Las Vegas papers, asking us to move out of the state, Both of the Las Vegas papers, which seldom agree on anything, published editorials agreeing that this was nonsense, that we brought a lot of

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prmporityto the state. This was a he thing for sad thy mtluw laughed this f.iiow out of court~ COMMISSIONER LIBBY: That is a sensible view. Foople have T& 1“/( got to learn to live with the facts of life, and part of the facts of \ life are fallout, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: It is certainly all right they say if you don’t live next door to it, MR, NICHOLS: Or live under it. COMMISSIONER LL13BY: I bet you would find Governor Peterson would be a little cool to moving the test to the Pacific. MR, NICHOLS: Particularly the open shot. COMMISSIONER LIBBY: How is he going to COMMISSIONER MURRAY; We must not let with this series of tests -- nothing~ CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: I think this should be get any information ? answer ed promptly, He should be told as far as the scheduling is concerned, he speaks of the week’s delay, we delayed the second shot in the Pacific, elthough much larger$ for either two or three week. MI?, NICHOLS: Our whole program contemplated delay, That was the way it was set up, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: N really worked them very much to get cut there on a scheduled day -- you know how these things are~ there is a weather conference and another one three hours later ~ and nobody knows whether to go to bed or not, COMMISSIONER MURRAY: That is right. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: It is very irksome.

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NMR, NICHOLS: He wanted to schedule three shots where YOU ~ could run it like a circus, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: We could not stage it for them. They t just turned around and left, ‘1 COMMISSIONER LIBBY: I think we ought to talk about this l I don’t want radioactivity falling on people’s necks, but it is an awfully serious thing. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Another thing about it is that since the fallout patterns have been established pretty well, they now in addition to the photograph apply a fallout pattern to the map, and there are just about two optimum areas. One is more or less west of north of a line that would run perpendicular north, which would run over this Lincoln, Minnesota, There was group of people there. They had arranged in that event the men would stay in the mines, and the women and children would move out in busses. That was the best route north, Ten degrees east of that There is another apparently optimum they got into more settled areas t direction almost due south, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: No. East they got over Pioche and over St. George, which they apparently always plaster. ivfll. NICHOLS: I thought it was just south of those two places* CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: South of those two places is a very narrow corridor where if the wind shifts ten degrees in either direc - tio~ ‘thetilhey are in trouble again. Of course, they really never paid much attention to that be f ore * MR. NICHOL2: Those charts are the same as when they explained t :.em to the Commission at the time we went over the criteria ~ CHAIRMAN STRAUX: At that time they did not have on them

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C OMMISSICNER LXBBY: A fluke of the weather or winds causing 1$ would happen if an H bomb was set off in a hurricane. know, and I didn’t think anybody else knew. 411,5 COMMISSI@NIZR MURRAY: What is the largest spot we Nave *[ v CHAIRMAN STRAUSSt In the preceding test, I have a feeling you are right, MR. NICHOLS: Either 70 or 80, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: And the largest this time is 40, MR, NICHOLS: And we have twice as high a tower, CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Not quite. COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I think we ought to answer this letter, but we should say we will investigate new sites+ Vre will think of Alaska~ and all those other places. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: Do you think we ought to raise the question you raised whether he means this series ? COMMISSIONER MURRAY: 1 would not mention it, Just say we are glad to get his letter, ~~reare taking more precautions and more than we have in the past. It may take a longer time to run the series, We wili look into it, V~e recognize the difficulties, and we will look into another site. CHAZRMAN STRAUSS: Al and Herb York and Ken were talking, no decision made, about conducting future tests of anything except iiitle ones in the Pacific. It is so easy to do things out there because you can do them one a day, practically. (Discussion off the record,) “ COMMISSIONER LIBBY: Let us take this up with the MLC tomorrow. Is that a good subject?

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thing would happen which would set us back with the public for a lCW I period of time. C OMMISSI@NER MURRAY: I am intere steal in the public all right, but if we are not going to have a test for another year, and we don’t go out to Nevada again, and we have another year to think of another test place, this Pacific idea you can talk all you want, Lewis, put them on a ship and get them out in 30 or 60 days, it will .CHAIRWN STRAUSS: Fly them out. C OMMISSICNER LIBBY: You cannot put troops on the plane and so forth. COMMISSIONER MURRAY t He has not said that in his letter. He may mean it. CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: No, C @$#vfISSIONER MURRAY: I would tell him, sure, we agree with him, we w~l look for a new site, and I would talk about Alaska,. &nd the nor~~ern sections, As a matter of fact, who was it that was in ihere, a wh~~q back, was it ~~’igner, somebody had an idea to go up north, instead of the Pacific. C OMMISSIONXR LIBBY: Point Barr OW, COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Put the name MR. NICHOLS: Let me have the letter. I work on it, of the place. will get people to CHAIRMAN STRAUSS: This is just a photostat, The original has gone to Military Application. I don’t think we ought to lose any