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9ugh~.m, tlr. Neil,Dr. Cook, and. the addition of Yr. Srrncan Cr. Lewis welcomed the visitors t.0 Skalk River. Ye stated th3t he was very clsd that this meeting had been arranged 8 3 evcryone felt it wacQ necessary, although it iVES6.if fi cult to br5Ez ahout because of scarcity nfl n for qat i cn. Dr.Ci pris ni had. been asked t o i pri ani : *"The agenda for this meeting w Defence Research Spard Panel on Fiadiation ;Protection and Treatment, %cause of ';he nroxirnity of our 2countries a e feel that there should be some uniformity. Ke wsnt soFethtR2 fep.si3le a n d not too different from what the Y.S. i s doing." I!e referred to the 7 { A Greg6 report and the mexirnum permissible doses qi zo ted in it, 9. BEST COPY AVAILABLE ve 2different situations in regard to civil defence: - of the standard limit & prevalent throughout the general field of existing at the monent, up to the point where 8civil defence
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in terns of how' many r a man can take. We a r e m thinking trying to fit different situations preseure. During the past few years, the t o be the effects of different body doses and what the effect will be on 50th military End civil defence. The civil defence bulletin outlines dosages and military has accepted these doses. 1swPllarized the effects to be expected from various doses. (see report)' other military or civil defence personnel should not get 150 ror ' Longair: I n connection with 13 week period i n which permissible dose may be received, he asked if' it was stated in which part of this period t h e dose might be received. Claus: "Nothing is laid down, but discretion is used. You wouldn't permit a men t o have one dose on March 31 and the next on ction with Morgan's proposed internal emergency If' this was in addition to external. claus : "No. We talk about them as additive. " Claw : "Yes". He referred to some report presented at the American Industrial h'pgiene Assn. meetings. I n connection with food and water monitoring - "University of eur ces equivalent Rochester worked out a device us
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to p y counters - uranium oxide impregnated in bioplastic and e after explosion should measurements be taken" :all, these measurements should be within 24 hour Bugher: "V!ith this procedure, vre are paying attention mainly to Tait: ''h?ay/the danger be greater if you have a large safety factor - it would be serious to cut off drinking water in large cities if it were not absolutely necessary." He said something about !Varren: "I woiild worry a little about disregarding the p because you could g e t quite a slug to a large population on tha3 basis - . and there Eire a fair number of auxillary water s91pplies even in a large city in emergency times - laundries, breweries have artesian supplies. I would hesibate to be other than pretty Cipriani: "Have you modified the levels for airforccand other-parts 1ausYewea: "No. The levels which I described are presently accepted Gregg recommendation of 75 r for aircrew Claus: "1 th s still acceptable. This is maximum. Eeyondcthis - nausea and vomiting which is incompatible with aimasks." Warren: "This is difficult 'to analyze. We have done stiidy on s m e patients at Houston, Texas. So far, at levels used, there is sigh of changes in cerebral divided dose irradiation. "
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Warren : 'I Th dication in anirnal experiments that you can ffort even when almost moribund with irradlation. e& mortality, but there is apparently ability to put out peak effort for a brief period." Pace: "In connection with water monitoring, we have been following Mr. Taitls figures and I was gratified to find that the Americans also felt the same way. \!'e seem to have been working Goulding: Inquired about tolerances for skin irradiation with p from Answer referred to fac;Ooc of 5. !:'arren: " L n s t Tuesday, I saw 4 men who for a period of over a year had been getting radiation from X-ray. One had shown loss of hair on terminal and next t o terminal fingers. Taylor: "In collection of figures for internal emitters, how do they arrive at what is internal? How do they know what is there?" Cipriani: "Some uniformity in measurements must b e developed or we Taylor: "1 don't see how you can teil internal emitter." Claus : t 1 T h 9 ~ ' ve t o get bioassay people together to work this ecessary. Some strong action will have t o be
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18 put on agenda t o & e t some uniformftg f nhm an t year, Dr. Simpson spent the summer a t Great 5ear adon survey of the mine. Lake maki \$'e also had workers wear filn.badges and we also examined szmples of urine. radon was the only one t h a t seemed important." Dr. Simpson presented figures re radon survey (see separate report). Cipriani : "The only cure w e see is i ventilation and weme wondering how you are tackling pro b len,of high radon concentration." \C i pri ani : "Sometimes high figures were zssociiited with high grade ore but not always. -\There is a desperate need for an in str ment that cen be taken into the mine 9.0 tha tWV- a measurementI.c m be "Ygher: "Our problem is different because we have no concentration of uranium of any magnitude. which isn ' t actually comparable to that in Canada orthe Eelgian This has lead to a type of mining ?\:e have small mines witha few/ o r maybe only one man. Therefore, ventilation is question of cost. Radon concentration seems t o be no relationship to richness of oreor amount of it. Re have entered into3part agreement - Health Service actually does air measurements. Ventilation seems tobe answer but capital cost is to operator of mine." Claus: "Ven an is proSablg answer but we are beginning toget away from concept radon i s determining factor." (see separate Claus: "Recirculetion of air after passing through filters seems best steady rate from the exposed radium walls.
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-.Pughik: " Difficulty is that ave absolutely no services - are no means tila ting equipment.11 Claus: "1 b e l his is being considered." .ect ro static pre ci pita ti on? 'Illas there been any follovr up o f miners. "\\re have 3or !\ cases of cencer i n employees of this mine. ',\'e studied them and decided there was only one that you might b3 able top in on mine. Claus: "Nothing else has turned iip yet". ??e referred to study they want t o do of population i n one town surrounding a mine to find out if high levels of radon i n mines 5s a contributory cause of Karren: Re referred to sputum test for cencer and said thst indic et fons were that if you have e. ne.gntive test, you have a 95% chence o f not having bronchial camer. They have found this test more effective than X-'ray. You have t o have experience in the testing. Dauphinee: "How about these tests on miners. Cippiani: "Nothing done yet. ?he turnover inthe employees ofthe, mine i s high - the men are scattered far and wide. "
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Item YO. 2 - b lil it a rym d Giv ilta n Defecee EZsdis',ion in st run ent ation Cr. Cipriani : i would like to say that we have a lk is on %re ivith the military mdc i Bil de fe me. $+e havs a :;ro::rxa esd hare dgcided on ze rta in ty ps of in st run ents. check of beta radiation. rfe reco,$'ize that tkere may b~ an alpha liazard, but we ara net recommending alpha neasurement. We hcve recoimended two ty p ~ sof SIX, and they haven ' t made up their miid &bout tile second om. The Services and Ziv13. Defsnse have agreed that they v my t tha first So far as the first one is c once rm i n mind. It i m e- It is similar to the oce they produce i n Zngland, and mi nation - 500R yer hour) this is the sort of thing we had have a radioactive source top t the ca libra tic n scale. Another wtiy this differs from the ; ; articular require n ents is t ? i ? st the batteries era in a little box i n The bottom which can be un_clugged. I cw.lt say nnythinq a b c u t dosimeters because i)tt&wn
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Dr. Yassey: bt tt bothe a pee ment is the type of reading from 15 t o !.nq up t o 53. The preference is for the technical dosineter -w i than on - calibration accelerator Krt.apr isn a : Sith lia it ed dist rih tion. Ths ot hsr tM ng is s phosphate glass with afilm. m.af is the reason tfiat this has not been adopte2 by the military, is it the collection of in for nat io2 ? Dr. Q;i?riaai: It seems the w a y you can get a n j ~real information 03 what haspens %':?en a bomb drops in a city ic'by dosimeters. 3. Lo q air : if this hf om ation is coin,. t o 3% c ql loc ted,Civil Defame feels this is the ple ce to coll act it - notk ? z battle fi eli.I an not co minced the do sine ter t o the Si vil are use people. then get started, md/quite abit of proczromcnt. up in the various.military groups t o handlo it., s o we are more or less in an adyisory In the early years we had wi tea bit to do in help in ? ?low there are several groL;p s e t capacity. I can only giva you the picture as we s2e it from U1C. .Follcwing are ea of dosimekers: on his talk which are being prep red in final form i n Personal Eo the ty ge tnat vfoi:ld be worn by everyone (25-500R) Traiqinq 3osirreter - worn ty various ;>cople trtlininy t o be defense wcrkers
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Xi lita ry Defense. Navy A ck in is tr at ive. - step i gdi cat or stresses the pol z ride self - read in ? would not use the flash dosimeter? This information was bassd on what would ycu do with t3e inf'ornaticn once YGU got it. hey decided that it was' not feasi5le. idea if the devic2 were simple enough s-?? inexpensive enocqh so that enough people could Isn ' t it a fact that the V.8. Army decided az on th ago tht they As t o your iuestios? cs t o the feasibi1it.J of *zsi?lg the flash Does the Airforce tske-he Qt it ud s of doing no3ninq. atall ? -- I am a little surprize d that tY,ey do not plm to hare 8'1 ad n in i at rat ive Bu tenhof f : lhe they meant that they did not plan to use the chemical dosimeter. n made t o develo? s-naller instrunerits. There have been som contracts lzt for color changin? systems which 3ave worked outto sone decree. Is there a;tythiEq that could be said about certain battery in st run ents,
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.afew instruments of Cke ty p that cocld mas we alpha A?92-10 wkiqh i s developed by tke General Electric Gompar~y. Er.&ipriani: Isn ' t that a revision of the original copy. It is a little portable. of decontaiiination ap nts varies in nost cases. i n more recent years f km it has Seen recormen6ed the use of cornplexing q ents at ' varying phs and vs ry in y tea prat ure. These have also been comkined ?;it?, citrate and other ap nts, altogether.Certainly if you are dealing with ac cnt mina tes wound i wouidn't think the worker shculd waste aqy ti xe locking for a specific thing, they should use sozp 3zd vatsr and even jcst water if no scap is available. 2xcegt for ocr ns ional have trier ! several of these agents. ?!e nave felt hydrochloric acid was as useful as my. !+":'.. 'nave it full str enc th, but i n scme cases we use it half strength. skin by a fe ctor tnat hes really enlcrged the knowle6ge of tho general aij xo ach enc? ais0 the f;e?.erni I think The grwp here hzs he.d an unusually Srosd experience in de cmt mina tinc accoxplisliments. I think from the stand ? oint of in t br nal use of dec on tm in at in z 9::c,nts, attent.2c.c is beis?, fcaused on 3TA arid it s e e m t o be East satisfactory.
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In the freeing 3:' plutonium tk-e ad n in is tr - tion is hgparcgtly s ? c crease ia the physics o f 5.25 over the astrea tert sli ~ ir x tio nr ate.It is eff s s tire also I n Auestioni That would b= given with cslciun salt in cr ling e ? hnswer: I thi I d be the ratio. kues tion : The o tion I wculd like to raise is the rate of cleconposition. i figure it must be within 15 t o 16 hours. 3r. &ip=ieni: Iiow does this thing coq are with zirconism Plutoniun has been nore helpful. This i s for internal decont&?ation.
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that rat skir. dec wasfied they s o t it at.ed more easily t!xm hum3skin. If the skin had not been Longair : ould an al kili ze d-s ol uti on be tlre test ? would be soap and watsr. Bois$y: I t seems t o ne it wculd make aloss of all tls metallic elements in the experiments ivith the sodium salts were 2isestrol;s tothe individLals who hsve 1sus sect that the hhzards have :pt t o a2Fesr; but certainly the early -4nswer: The count caa be reduced. I kavs seen cases where it has been reduced t o a c x n t Isn ' t it proposed to use this over 8 considerablz _L-r::od of ti:?? 4cest ion : In surgery in ex minin sR wound wosld you nave t o have a wider incision ? aid you feel awed for a type of s lec der probe t o stick inthe wowid and left ofi the foreign bodies inside the wowid, in that stage we felt it 8ip if i cant.I think 3r. cipriani has ccvered the point that I it is nota particularly good thing to stick aomethinc inthe wound which ~ 021 2drive the foreign body into the wound. The kind of ? rote we are thin3ring of now is one wsich will qi-re a srr.&llreadiric in one I think it is be tier to depend on …
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