See Martha Re: Classification

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Fila Code Na Notes on a Conversution Between Drs. Kerr and Lawrence with Regard . t o the Proposed Metabolic Unit at Cowell. Dr. Lawrence began the conversation by s mari z iq briefly the contacts with Mr. Donnjr find Mr. Donner's associates which had lead to the consideration of a Dormer provided Metabolic Unit. The fact was stated the t it was Mr. Donner's intention and desire to place the metabolic unit at Cowell and that the unit should be a functional part of the Depart m nt of Medicine; also, that it was hoped theta great deal of cooperation inthe use of tha metabolic ward lould be rur the red by all the manbdre ofthe Medical School who would be interested in such a contact on the Berkeley Canpus, close to the facilities of physias, chemistry, and medical physics. Dr. Kerr remained silent, grim, and throught ful and finally inter - j ec ted that he had heard of the general plan, althouC-.h he would not say throuch whom. He also mantioned immediately that it had EiVdn him some concern, ad that other membars of tha Medical School v:era e qu bl ly concerned. His immediate pattern of converso tion was directed to the fu ct thet he himself for years and years isas hoped toget such ti project e,oiw i n thc? Department of Xedicine; that he h in self is ci th out space i n the Medical School for such an expansion but that now he nay geta "considerable" Space i n the Laguns Honda Hone bnd he mentionad the known fact of the 20 bed metabolic ward t o be set up by Shemkin and Biennan attha Laguna Honda Home. He stated pointedly that,inhls mind, the complate solution VI ~ St hbt of bring iw, our proposed metabolic unit into the space he has a t the Lagunu Honda Hone and combining it with the other 20 bod unit.MET ARC Li CUi VlT

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Filo Cod. Na Lh ile this mie-ht solve some of thd problem at the Medical School, Dr. Lavrrance immediately pointed out that the problem concerned W ~ Sn otthe problam of the Medical School, but tha problen of research of the Division of Medictil Physics ; that however vast the extensions of the Departmdnt of Medicine in the city m iF ht be, we would still hclve t o have such aunit.Dr. Kerr's succeeding remarks indicated his general fear that the Medicel School might be broupht through such a move t o the Bsrkeley Ctunpus piece meal, altho ue hat the first of th d conversation he had preraced the conversation as a whole with remarks about the proposed trans rer of the Medichl School t o the Berkeley Campus by remarking th ht there was much t o be said on both sides. himself, he tri ddt n indicate that he may have been in favor of such a move. Dr. Kerr continued w i t h many argumants decrying the way the Depbrtment o r Medicien was sur re ring from its lack of contact with Medical Physics, physics, chemistry, physiology, anotomy, md all the other basic sciences and allied medical sciences which are concentrated on the Berkeley campus. He feels, as a person in his direct in € poe it ion <.hould, that the Medical School proper should hhve thd services and cooperation of these allied departments, and yet ha obviously did not see this either as an argunent for bringing the old Medical school to Berkeley, o r for brin Fin g this s-?all division of the Departnant of Medicine tothe Berkeley Cmpus, where various staff members tind internees of the Departsent o r Medicien may have the necessary close contact with - the facilities of the Berkelay Campus. Dr. LavJrence pointed out the precedent tor such division sino thar institutions, mantioning th t it specifically of Barvard where the Medic d School a d Department of Medicine bre represented in mbny hospitals snd many medical

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Archlvo, and Recorda Office centers throuphout the city.Dr. Kerr re it a rated statements which indicated th kt he felt that the proposed move would certainly wed an the existing Depbrtnant of Idedicine. Dr. Lawrmce countered each argument with r35arks thut in th a past any such moves that o th dr institutions have mttde have alwqs tended to s trang then the exist in e department. Somevrhbt earlier in the conversation, and repeatedly throughside red th J present arrangement such th ut the Division of Medical Physics would concern itself only with noma metabolism ad th bt any r or k with human pathology would be don=. on the Son Francisco Capus under his supa r vision was quite st it is factory. regarded the existence of the small clinic which Dr. L&wrence has nain tai ned for many years treating patients. He entered one point upon which he was sonerhvt vague, but Ihl ch may have some significantin sight on his pattern of thoupht, that he belidved the existing phosphorus cli nio ht Crockar - and any proposed work on patients by the group - were t o be fraught with possible medicallegal action. Dr. Lawrence completely disagreed with this point of view and pointed out th ht the clinic was only nunaged bv compet ant physicians workinp vith proper licenses and. that the sane would hold true at th j mothbolic unit a t Cowell, which would not only be under his ma supervision, but under tha combined supervision ofDr.Ken,Dr. Donald, him elf, and any other Doctors who might be interested in a part1cuh.r problen. He again d is - Dr. Kerr mentioned as a strong point that he could do more vrith thz money t o be invested if it were t o be invested a t the Lapuna Honda Hone. He ranarked as though five thousand dollars would solve his rlhole research installation at the hone, although

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Lawrsnso Berksley Laborrloy in subsequent convershtion it was apparent that ho did not realize t h - current costs of adequate laboratory installation,for it would cost him atleast ten thousand dollars for the bare bull dine and fixtures of such laboratory s ace, not t o mention wood construction, equipment, and the iac ili tics necessary for research. There should be no difference in my such costs whether a t Berkeley or at S a as soma money was t o be spent on a small wing at Cowell, it v:as Mr. Donner's r ish to further at th s same tine, the student health on the campus, and that the metabolic wing when not beine used for special patients, be used t o house student patients.Inthe event that the Medical School should be brought tothe Berkeley Campus in th a future,the metabolic unit presumably oould be located a t the Medical School builCings and tha wing at Cowlell then muld not be lost to the University, but would represent a substantial gain to there pula r facilities of th d Cal. Hospitul. It was also pointed out by Dr. Lavrrcnce that, inasmuch Dr. Kerr mentlcaad learning about the metabolic unit through a newspaper er tic le.Dr. Lawrence doubted this source, and Dr. Kerr vas cons leer ably vague on boiling down to th a actual article. This point should be checked. Dr. Kerr mentioned thtit "other people" were considerably altrmed hb OUt the prospects of the "MeBical School eoin e piece meal t o Berkeley" as he put it. He was completely reluctant to commit himself i n any m y as being in favor of a metabolic unit at Berkeley, an5 expressed a desire that th3 money sould be gotten from Mr. Donner v.ith out stipulation as to the invest nen t site - he v:ould approve it i mw di at ely. for D r . LavJrence t o do would be t o Cons It the Advisory Board Of In that cuss, he indicated Oth2m4se he felt the only thing

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Lawranco Borholov Laboralow I Near the end of the discussion,Dr. Kerr had reiterated his emphasis tkt such proposed medical unit would have t o be a close part of the Department of Medicine; otherwise it v.ould weaken the Department, decrying again the lack of teach in rfa c ili - ties of this sort available to the Medical School. sue gas tion by Dr. Lawrence thut it would be very easy to raise any nec ess try funds for such a project on the Medical School grounds, Dr.Kerr became noticeably warmer. through the U. S.Public Health Department for funds, and in dich ted that he night be willing to help Dr. Kerr with such an arrhngenent. Dr. Kerr's at t it ud s changed noticeably and although he still did not come t o an hne dik te conclusion that he vmuld be willing to sup. ort the Cowell metabolic unit, he Indicated that such really could be worked out and that he would speak tothe dean about it. Dr. Lawrence remhrked thrit he believed the detm was completely fixed against the plan, and Dr. Kerr rem rke d very jovially that he bali eve d th it he could "convhce" the debn of its merits. There were other i mons is ten oie s in the general Kerr policy. He was apparently determined t o maintain the Medical School in San Francisco at the s me time he recognized the possibilities and th3 "hazards" of havine tha Medical School moved piece neal tothe "Berkeley Cmpus. He spoke at great length of the appalling condition of htiving the Medical School divorced from its 0related sciences, and htthe sume time spoke Ofthe marvelous -0 time in th z future whsn he expected there would be a Medical School, not only on the present San Francisco site,but also on th d Bmk e ley Campus, both rl our i shing On state funds It is disc our wing to see this old m8n approuching the end

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of his own Medical School tenure with no record of real medical research, with no promise of having time to devote to a research program in Medicel Physics in the future, with no funda available, and no space to provide for such a research program, to react against two constructive moves which would benefit direEtly the department of Medicine, the Medical School, and the correlation of sciences at the University of California.