Meeting Minutes, Executive Session Acbm Meeting March 27, 1965

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Executive Session - ACBN Heetfng - Merch 27, 1965 Dr. Dunham raked for reaction8 of'the' t o the sai ent if ic preseatations and tu the fac ili tie a. Dr. Fuwcett explained that the or rb problem is how to get groups closer together for better comamication. In taking over a t Richland lcr that they recognize that the life sciences is something that can grow and haa a trex&rrdoua future. EIe s a i d that Battelle is investing Its ~ c f nmoney in building# and facilities and have purchaued 300 acres of land but have t o think about expaneion in the l i f e science8 when the "mscle" i r 25 miles away, acquiring land or adding t o the 100-Area doe8 not seem t o &e sense but makes for abit of a dilemma. He said that Battelle's purpose Ee said that the possibility of Dr. Kornberg stated that authorization had been received t o construct at that site two facilities ; one, for large sni-ls (SMP Program, etc.), und two, for dogs. Total - cost, $400,000. They have the choice of puttiug these i n the 100-F Area of where they hope t o be. a split campus ina small way with the hope that eventually they would all be i n one area. facility he would abandon the old area; that the main laboratory iaa general purpose lab and probably would not be abandoned completely. They will be operating .. Dr. Kornberg stated that if he had the %million dollar Dr. Hodges aeked i f there were any part of the biological activity that he things that go on out there. actor effluent water for a study still going on i n the ne as a routine service t o the Division of Production.

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Dr. Fawcett said that the site wa8 selected because It lies downwind from the rest of the nrea. enlarging and it seems that allawance should be made f o r expansion. present it is not so much e problem of space for people but f o r equipment; a maas of fn strum nts ere needed for research. Ha commented that hi a own experience of moving intoa new building is that it l e already filled and when more equipment is obtained men are needed t o run it. Dr. Cohen said when he see8 the role clearly a mandata for the group to fulfill it8 function. he would think viriting 8cicatist8 vould rsazte up t o lS-20% of its population. He said that universities are not likely'to keep pace with industry. I n order t o deal with society in the next 25 yeare not only need physical people and tools but have t o have the space for them t o work in. t o be a univereity facility wlthin five years heve t o make sure that before the next 5 years go by the space is available. D r . Loeb 8afd he hoped t h a t i n the operation it is recognized that until the Bichland area reaches its potential it is extremely important t o provide maxiuuam fluidity of people moving in and out .ad bringing universities in more than they have been doing. Dr. Loeb remarked that one of the most striking developments a t the Lab betseen now and f i v e years ago is having Symp08iti there without restricgion of having people in and out wlth lifting of security, etc. is an enoms difference in the degrees of restrictions. Dr. Kornberg mentioned that the building, as planned, Dr. Cohen said he could foteeee the area It seeas there Dr. Hodges carrmented that when the ACBM had metat the lab earlier it eeem the Cornnittee had urged more extensive cormnsnication by the regional universitiea, and it had been Indicated that this had been brought about;

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he inquired i f there were a possibility to have more of thia. replied that there is ua increese of this every yeat. steps have been made from the prev iw recommendation of the ACEH 5 year8 ago of the is port m ce of increased interchange a d thinks this will continue. Dr. ILornberg c mated that their Lab was the first t o have a foreLgn scientist at Eanford (Englishman); the ff rat to have IAEA Post-Doctorate Fellovs (Indian 61 Turk). first grad w te student toget Doctorate degree Ete thin la that gim? Dr. Bussell wondered t o what extent any of the ateff were participating f o r graduate 8tudy operated by the U. Waah. io cooperation with Oregon State and Washington State. They have t o recently purchased from Hanford Engineer Worfco 80 acres on the rivet. U. of Wash. has put half-railllon dollara into it; Battelle w%ll match for another half-million, and they will 80 t o the government for the balance. The Center is very strong i n nuclear engineering wfth local profersors. Dr, F.ucttt replied that in Rfchland there i8 a center out of their: prerent quart err^ Dr. Loeb think8 a pattern has been set by other government establolhmeats, 8.8,. the National h a t . of Meteorology, i n Colorado. He does not think it aedessary t o duplicate what conventional university can't just Dr. Russell s a i d there should be eome thinking i n terms of --------; some awarenee8 80 that the univeraity professor will start thinking this -ye; should g e t them there and geg them thinking.

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f ) r . Paul conrareated that in the last two years he obtained Capsmiasionspend the 8uwmkr a t the Lab or take a seaneater off. &e would like t o aee this program expanded. Dr. Russell thought the agricultural experlment station6 would send people t o meet there. Dr. Bale waa impretsed wlth the competence of the group. Dr. haharp a6kcd If there yere any particular questions the Coe a it tee wished t o ask of Dr. Paul (Radiological Atmosphere 6 Instrumentation doing is related to the work a t AMI, (Marinelli) and also at HASL (Harley). He thinks close contact with these groups should be maintained. Dr. Bale commented t h a t nuch of the work Dr. Paul is corrmented that it wau necessary not to haw a lot of duplication in D r . Loeb inquired i f the men in various poritiona were seriously hampered for travel funds for conferences, t o which Dr. Paul replied that fun& must come out of operating fund. I Dr. Favcett commented that the travel funds come out of their program funds; no restriction on business travel. Dr. Paul said the Operations Office tells them how much they can spend i for travel and the number of people that can go t o the conferences and professionel society neetinge. restriction placed on funds for travel. funde available for foreign visits is the only Headquarte,rs control. Dr. Dunham asked Mr. Stanwood to look into this situatiu'n. Dr. Paul said there is a control limit of $13,000 t o be used traveling t o piofessional meetings. ,' It was the op bi on that there should not be such a Mr. Stanwood commented that the

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Dr. Brunet commented that Harry Kornberg'e group had been extremely helpful ia doing borne progranmatic work in connection w i t h the 8lUAP Prograro. (This i a the ryste ~ ~ sfor nuclear propulsion and offers very peculiar health hazards). Battelle-Northwest has been extremely blp ful. Dr. Bmnel: 8aid that in his estiolation, l i e l s e n ' 8 &velopIsent is the biggest thing slace sodium oxide crystal e. able aread and uot too often. HEW regarding the lack of article8 i n the Jouraal on blielren'r work. D r , Bruner urges that 6onrp? of theee thingr which are 60 extremely important be put into acceptable placea for other scientists to have. development w a s presented In a mlld form in rssts0ments of body burdrnr at This work ha8 been presented i n vary unacceptHe further stated that he get8 inquiries from Dr. Lough said that at the Washington end of the line the people in the radiological physics field have already noticed a change i n the cauplarion of the Lab a t Rlchland since the reorganiratloa. This was illustrated by the one trip made by Dr. Boesch to talk with Dr. Barr and hi8 associates. Out of it came a very good prospect. him do more fundamental work I n radiological physics. i t 18 incumbent on the Washington staff to visit the labs 88 often as possible, but it I s surprieingly beneficial for the Lab people t o come t o Waehington and spend some the with the staff, Dr. Lough was interested in having He also eaid that Dr. Bale wa8 impressed with the problems and amount of work going on i n which measurement of both reactive and trace elements and neutron

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reactivation techniques are important. at the labs are in a relatively primitive stage but at thfs la they are in et it u tim s, and people with poet-doctoral atatus could virlt Btchlan'd and use the facilities &ere. He remarked that blielsen's l a b is f u l l and there 38 probably not mch room for uork of this 8 o r t a t the present tlm3. €le! would hope t h a t thLs lnight be orbe place vhere cont8ct8 could be mde for lacreaoed collaboration and get rid of soarc of the ie ol ation existing there and aloo la the oceanographic lab6. He eaid that many of these thi-8 Be eees a place for contact with oceanographic Dr. Bussell c-nted that this illustrates the need for the raiddle management to travel outside of their inter eet -- should gct more ic lent iet s Dr. Cohea asked i f the Livennore program overlapped with some of the work being done at Battelle-t?orthwest, that replication of a l o t of work is desirable but aooyt will occur. is not going t o be duplicative; that they have certain amount of programnatic work, and there have been discussion8 between t h i s group and with radioelements and doing practically all at the cellular level. group are practically all physlologists. differently nov and groes duplication is not anticipated. Dr. Dunham cornnrented that the program there Livermore ha8 developed a group of biologists themselves, working They are looking a t things Dr. Hodges ccmxnented that both at this time and In private conversations the Committee and staff mehers were pleased with what they sew and heard.

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.They were very much irapressed with the fact that the biology group, and Dr. Ru88ell stated that the fact that the lab i a lrltuatcd on the rher w l t h a desert on the other side ehould be kept ever present In d a d of the tremendous role of water with blological and ecosystcaU~. water hydration would be 8 focus of u~pheirthat, in 211s opinion, couldn't be duplicated any pldce else. In addition, the water physlcg). and biological rysteara shouldn't be overlooked. expand this work. )or. Kornbcrg replied that they wiah t o Dr. Bale eeld there were preeentatloas at the meeting on the che air try of water and asked i f there were going to be any collaborative work that Lab from Northvestern. f o r fateruction opened up. give wch promise a i presented. Dr. Kod erg answered that Dr. Kalkwarf went to the Me feels strongly that there should be more avenue0 Dr. Cohea commented that his presentation did not Dr. Wolfe thinks that Dr. Hungate's program could have more imegiaation. There should be a mor0 unified effort towards aome major objective. was learned about the tundra with Alaskan team. In the Richland area there are all the opportunities for an overall program coaslstfng of projects each leading t o an objective, w l t h ehe desert about which not very much Is known, and the Columbia River, which could be a problem in itself. total effort headed towards projects with Columbia River or the desert might

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He said that i f the prograrn could becontribute to ecology of hununity. expanded slowly with one big objective production wuld be iacrersed and it would be a major contribution to little-known areas like the Columbia River end the desert. Dr. Ruseell referred to a coemrent during one of the presentations about studying ecosystem in tracers using the river, a an example, not overlooking the opportunity for thir study, and suggeats giving aome insight to kinds of questions going t o be aaked with frequency as amove is made into i rr lg at ional areas. Dr. Wolfe stated that there are opportunities being overlooked in linking up 8- of the program with tremendous Lnrplicotiolls, e.B., meteorology, ecology; I r i s h ' work, which should be exploited mcch more. objective but work going on and being ignored by ecologists. romebody with a cie nti fic ioragination, and there is 80 nuch more opportunity f o r improvement of the program uMch l a being overlooked. Dr. Cohen asked i f the alrsignment of patents nay go t o Battelle under Dr. Pawcett replied that the Government gets to oton any patent which Battelle is free t o give. AEC automatically gets royalty-free license t o uae. when they are working on some contract for induetry in nuclear energy unrelated t o operating contract then it is clear that if an invention is

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made the patent. can be signed uver t o the sponsor. or growth out of something in thc contract (3) a royalty-free license goes I n the nuclear field Dr. Sterner asked i f BNW anticipates getting into difficulty with eheer i n the salary t o investigators doing reseacch work under contract; Dr, Pawcett &&that they are under euwe il lance of AEC on their salaries. &has t o approve every salary ufet $25,000, and there are ree tri ctf ow on the number of raires, amounts of raisea, etc. 1. GAC invited ACBX t o meet with them at Live more July 12-13-14. Dr. Dunham suggeated a two-day meting (7112-13) a t Liverubore, one day, 2. At recent Authorization Hearing8 information was requested on building for biology group a t Battelle-Northwest. 3. Dr. Anton hag will report to Michigan State t o head up radlobotany 4. Reported on meeting of Bio-Medical Program Directors, Puerto Bico marine biology program. There waa much enthuefasm about ecology and away from Div. of Organization of American States,a regional agricultural experimental 6 . The University of Tennessee-AEC Agricultural Research Lab has proposed a atudy in swine, which is of j nter est from a standpoint of nuclear war and nuclear accidents. be aaaociated with (L solar flare. Dr. George Caraarett wfll eerve as permanent consultant on this study. The Office of Civil Defense …