Minutes of the Seventy-Fifth Meeting of the Advisory Committee for Biology and Medicine

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The first session of the two-day meeting was held at A ECf IQ, Germantom, both sessions were: and the Scientific Secretary, Dr. Henry Kohn. Inthe absence of Dr.Cant ril, Dr. Bugher acted as Chairman. The second session was convened atthe "E' St, Building. Attending Dr. Robert Loeb, Dr. James Hors fall,Dr. Harland Wood and Dr. Bentley Glass attended the second session. Members of the staff of the Division of Biology and Medicine attending Miss Rosemary Elmo. Dr. Douglas Grahn, Dr. Gordon Dunning and Mre Robert Corsbie. sessions at HSt,,Dr. Paul McDaniel, Deputy Director of the Division of Research and Asst. General Manager A. Tammaro participated in the discussions concerning the national - laboratories. For special presentations the Committee heard from This meeting of the ACBM was without formal agenda to permit discussion with the Director of the Division of the problems arising in a number of policy areas. Dr. Dunham reported on his recent trip to Buenos Aires t o attend the Second Symposium on the Use of Isotopes in Agriculture, Biology and Medicine. This was held under the local sponsorship of the Argentinian Atomic Energy Commission and was generally planned and supported by the Organization of American States,Dr. Dunham reported his satisfaction with the leading part taken in the discussion by representatives of the several Latin American countries. Although theU.S,was well represented,the discussions were not dominated by the North American visitors. Dr. Dunham' reviewed some of the results of the two high altitude shots at Johnston Island during the Hardtack series and their bearing,on the Argus ball and the very large thermal pulse made possible by the expanded fireball and the reduced atmospheric attenuation. Under the circumstances of a clear sky, retinal burns could occur at distances as great as 300 miles. Of great ' .interest was the extremely rapid expansion of the fire - The fallout hearings were completed on schedule and the publish ez trans - cri pts will be available in the fall. The Committee considers the statements prepared by Dr. Dunham and the several members of the staff to be documents of remarkable clarity and scientific value. for its outstanding performance despite the time handicap and recommends that copies of the Division ' s testimony be made available as soon as possible for distribution to all participants in the research program and t o educational It commends the staff most highly - groups having an interest in the subject. Dr. Dunham reported his visit to the High Altitude Laboratory i n Peru where mice kept at the high altitude develop less leukemia than those a t sea OFFICIAL USE ONLY

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level but have more lung tumors. monary emphysema and exhibit severe hematologic strain. Those a t high altitude also develop pulDr. Grahn reviewed the study of death rates from congenital malformations in relation to the magnitude of uranium deposits. the Division of Raw Materials, has shown a remarkable correlation between the un corrected death rates from this cause and the results of the geological surveys f o r uranium reserves. that will be required and the complexity of the confounding variables. He feels that the data are of so interesting and provocative a character that the lead must b e followed vigorously to determine the basis of the apparent correlation. Also, he feels that this material should be published as soon as the more fundamental statistical analyses have been completed. With both of. these recommendations the Committee concurs and is pleased that the scientific imagination that led to this study was to be found within the Commission staff concerned primarily with the development of raw This study, initiated in Dr. Grahn emphasized the numerous corrections Dr. Gordon Dunning discussed the plans of the JCAE for hearings on the "Shape of Nuclear War" for which h e has been preparing material on the delayed effects of nuclear attack. attack conditions would give a serious fallout problem to only1 - 2 7, of the U.S. area, an increase in the attack of about tenfold would give practically 100% serious fallout from the',overlapping fallout patterns. His calculations show that radio iodine would be a very serious component through contaminat€on o f food and water. that storage of food sufficient for at least two months of shelter l ffe would be essential.In connection with such effects as life shortening from whole body radiation, members of ACBM called attention to other contributions to life shortening in the stresses of the post attack situation.such as prolonged malnutrition and infectious disease from the biological handicaps imposed by a sudden reversion to essentially primitive state, and the numerous other factors operating under such conditions. It seems clear that 10 megatons o r more of explosive energy delivered to any city of the U.S. means the end of its being an organized and productive component of society. The analysis and experience to date show clearly the need to rely on the family unit and the small inexpensive shelter as part of the normal home construction. He indicated that while the assumed The results seem to indicate In the discussion,attention was called to the ineffectiveness of using mass figures of casual t fes as a stimulant to effective civil defense. It was suggested that the hearings might profitably be oriented to the problems t o be faced by the i-ndividual family and the measures which are available to it and effective within a reasonable expenditure of money Dr. Dunning's discussion was appropriately followed by a conference with Mr.Cor s bie on the results with a group shelter tested i nNevada series.Practical and economic shelter for 100 persons OFFICIAL USE ONLY

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OFFICIAL USE ONLY This has been represented ina model for exhibit. emphasized the value of the individual home shelter and the futility of mass evacuation under t h e type of attack now assumed. The remaining time of the first session and nearly all of the second were devoted to a consideration of the larger blocks of research support, some in the universities but mostly in the national laboratories. the discussions by Dr. Dunham and Dr.Shilling,itwas apparent that some difficulty is being experienced inthe programs inall of the national laboratories but there are no two that present the same problems. There is satisfaction with the present state of the project at the University of Rochester which operates as a department of the Medical School. On the other hand, difficulties continue at UCLA, with considerable internal opposition to the project on the part of members of the Medical School faculty whose departments were originally made possible by the existence of b e made a department of the school; ifnot,the prospects for its continuation are poor. There appears now t o be some prospect that the project will The program a t Berkeley has developed along lines of scientific soundness but of decreasing relevance tothe Division's primary missions. example isDr.Calvin ' s program i n photosynthesis which now is costing about the desirability for the total support from AEC arises i n view of the interest of the National Science Foundation i n fundamental biological The scientific quality is excellent but the question of A discussibon of the relation of the Hanford program to the interests of the University of Washington and the State College a t Pullman brought out the continuing efforts on the part of General Electric Company to 'divest itself of the management of the biological facilities at Hanford and the assumption of responsibility by the State institutions. ACBM has considered this matter previously and recomended two years ago that no action along this line be taken at that time. staff of the Hanford biological program wish t o have academic a ff ilia - tion and faculty standing while continuing t o enjoy G.E. salary scales. It i s .the intent to use the facilities at Hanford for graduate study with conside r able movement of both students and staff between the Hanford laboratories and the University. With Seattle 300 miles distant and Pullman 200 miles, both the Division of Biology and Medicine and ACBM view with some pessimism the prospects for good university operation. On the other hand, the isolated and difficult Hanford location is not appropriate for a continuing major bio log t cal research program which does not depend upon the operational problems of the Hanford Works for its logic. None of the various arrangements which have been considered have much appeal t o the members of ACBM who were present. There wasa consensus thata program of this magnitude probably could not be absorbed successfully by the institutions considered. Further,it was felt that the capital investment The supervisory scientific

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OFFICIAL USE ONLY a t Hanford should not influence the decisions. There is needed a better understanding of the planned role of the Hanford Works in the AEC program over the next 10 years and the types of operational problems of a unique character that may be encountered and which would necessitate some kind of biomedical research program. substantial reduction and r e - orientation of the program a t Hanford with the transfer of relevant portions to the regional institutions. This i s a matter, however, wherein the ACBM would like to see more active interest and participation on the part of the University and a willingness on the part of the Hanford staff to become integrated with the University faculty. Consideration might be given t o a I n many ways the problems concerning the Hanford program resemble those in the national laboratories although on a much smaller scale. These discussions set the stage for those concerning the larger non-academic comprehensive study, not only of the national laboratories but also of the major AEC university contract programs which are operating at the annual rate of $1,000,000 o r more. He has been named t o make a With respect to size of the national laboratories,Dr. *Daniel said that his group will be forced to take some - arbitrary positions as points of departure. For the present, they will state that no laboratory should be larger than 4,000 persons. He said that there is no agreement as to the optimum size and that there probably was no such figure,but on the basis that Harwell hasfound itself too large at 6,000 persons while directors of laboratories having 2,500 think they can grow some more, he i s using the figure of 4,000. One of the original arguments for the establishment of large government research centers was that no university could afford the reactors,the accelerators, and all of the other large, expensive machines needed for modern nuclear research. However, universities are building ta actors and large accelerators ; and with the government decision to build at Stanford University a linear accelerator two miles long which will cost between $105,000,000 and $150,000,000 and whose annual operating cost will probably be about twice that of the entire university,the original basis for the we now have them and institutions of this kind seem never t o be closed save by war o r depression, the problems are those of adjusting them to serve f u ' t m needs rather than to continue on the basis of the original just if i - .national laboratory would appear no longer valid. AccepKing the fact that The study will review past and present policies with respect to the major laboratories and will attempt to project their role in future years in the light of national needs and the atomic energy programs. OFFICIAL USE ONLY

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OFFICIAL USE ONLY Minutes, 75th Meeting of Advisory Conpnittee f o r Biology and Medicine, Substitute following paragraph for paragraph 2 , page 5 : There was noted the marked tenqency *in the national laboratories t o resist undertaking work degigned t o answer opefqting diffi - cul ties endountered by AEC. tendency, especially on the part of the directors of the laboratories,to - regard them as great centers of free research of all kinds, wherein the investigator can go his own way almost entirely. It was the concensus of the Committee that the Division should pursue a policy of expecting the national laboratories and other corresponding,-units to direct their programs squarely at answering those questions of primary concern to the AEC ; furthermore, steps should continue t o be taken t o promote interest in these problems, not only within AJX laboratories,but in the scientific world at large. There has been an increasing

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OFFICIAL USE ONLY Considerable discussion dealt with the problems arising from draining Carried to the extreme, this can destroy the scientific manpower from the universit z ks to work in isolated institutions with a0 teaching functions. India where the system of overgrown national research institutions (approximately 8 of them) has prevented the universities from maintaining both competent faculties and advanced students in the fundamental sciences. Asan example, Dr. Loeb cited the case of There was noted the marked tendency in the national laboratories to resist undertaking work designed t o answer operating difficulties encountered by AEC. on the part of the directors of the laboratories,to regard them as great centers of free research of all kinds, wherein the investigator can go his own way almost entirely. It i s the opinion of ACBM that this position is entirely unrealistic - and leads to neither superior science nor good citizenship. - As far as DBM i s concerned, it was the consensus of the Committee that the Division should pursue a policy of expecting the national laboratories and other corresponding units of the program t o conduct programmatic research to a reasonable extent, and that suitable arrangements should b e made t o implement this policy. that a useful measure of what i s reasonable would be t o allow for programmatic research the same proportion of time that in a university is customarily assigned t o teaching. There has been an increasing tendency, especially It was suggested For planning purposess i t would seem practical to relate the magnitude of effort in separate government research institutions to the total university resources and make the growth of the former activities dependent upon the rate of development of t h e latter. system of universities, pure research esta bliss ment s without teaching responsibilities almost inevitably stagnate and become unproductive with Unless backed by a strong There was extended discussion of the Argonne National Laboratory and its biomedical research program. and no solution has been achieved to the serious problem of leadership and direction. The use of a small committee, chaired by the program director, and. functioning as an executive council inlformulating and guiding program, seems t o be considered unworkable by the DBM staff. It seems clear to the ACBM, however, that the Division has been most generous and patient in allowing time for the necessary corrections to be made on a local basis but nothing has been forthcoming. It becomes incumbent on the Division of Biology and Medicine to outline the major objectives of the Argonne program and to …